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HyperLobby Online System :: View topic - [solved] HL and Illicit Mods
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WhistlinggDeath
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Joined: Dec 09, 2008
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:48 am Reply with quote

Hello Jiri - You (or someone pretending to be you) sent me an email about working to setup or incorporate a Punkbuster style illicit mod warning in HL. I am all for that and would be happy to help spend some time coding for it. As you probably know, CRT=2 does not prevent all mods from joining up. So look into Jiri and get back to me if you want help.

S! - Jay
 
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Jiri-Fojtasek
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Joined: Feb 02, 2003
Posts: 1729
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:22 pm Reply with quote

It is not posible and i cannot anything do with this. It should be call for the game developers made crt=3 or something. BTW i do not sending emails to anyone.

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WhistlinggDeath
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Joined: Dec 09, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:35 am Reply with quote

Looked like it was from a valid email address. As to a mod/anti-cheat check, respectfully disagree with ya. Just dont have time to contribute much to the coding of it at the moment.

WD
 
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neur0
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Joined: Jun 15, 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Sol III, Milky Way

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:14 am Reply with quote

The only anti-cheating that would work is the honor system. CRT=0, mods fully allowed and a "cheating is for losers" culture.

I think crt=2 is insulting, it's like saying that I'm considered a cheater unless I prove otherwise. If I say that I would never use a weapon, DM, or FM mod on line without permission, that should be more than enough.

Besides, actual hackers may take crt=2 as a challenge, and script kiddies... well those fail to realize that they would get real good at playing the game, if they only spent time practicing instead of using that same time looking for cheat mods to download.
 
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WhistlinggDeath
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:19 am Reply with quote

I would like to agree with you Neuro, but unfortunately there are 5 to 10% who could care less about the honor system. My experiences before with trying to fly and and evaluate Master level fliers, was that perhaps 5% or so (with more than a years of HL experience) were into shady mods or trying to manipulate the game (either thru modding, scripting or other means). Many guys were honest and flew damn well, but a few were always trying to pork the system. ....only shame is, a Punkbuster style anti-cheat system that is much stronger than crt=2 can be incorporated into the HL code, but not sure if I can convince Jiri to consider it.

S! - WD
 
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neur0
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Joined: Jun 15, 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am Reply with quote

Well, I know one thing: I wouldn't use a weapon, FM, or DM mod on line without permission, and if I say that, it should be more than enough guarantee that I won't.
A crt=2 server (or a Punkbuster system, for that matter) assumes that im a cheater and won't let me in until I prove otherwise. For me, that's a slap in the face and I rather don't play on that server.

PS. I quit reading the Master List when I realized that it would call any mods user a cheater. I'm a mods user and I wouldn't cheat.

PPS. 95% of all statistics are made up

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WhistlinggDeath
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:56 am Reply with quote

In effect though Neuro, we were not labeling anyone who uses mods as a cheater, ... just that keeping track of them all (and their numerous iterations) became too difficult. It began when the Advisory Board started to evaluate OAC Kosh, who would usually fly on his squad sever with mods that OAC and SAF squads had preset for that flying environment (which was not cheating at all, since anyone who joined the server had to have them .. and hence all were on a level playing field). Then we got into the whole murky business of trying to sort the 'legitimate' mods (like those from AAA) from the illicit ones. Finally we used Java and C++ decompilers and some other tools to actually detect cheating at its true lowest level. And even when we proved that a veteran was doing it, the guy would deny it to the end of the earth. Finally, despite some of the nice aspects of the Masters List, it just got too time consuming to sort out all the kiddie fights.

Needless to say, when the next generation sims begin to be released (like perhaps SOW), I will be happy if they contain updated anti-cheat measures.
 
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neur0
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Joined: Jun 15, 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:05 am Reply with quote

I dont care if I'm shot down by a loser with an aimbot. I know he's a loser and he knows it. I know that the great majority of IL-2 players wouldn't cheat, I wouldn't cheat myself, and I wont play on any server that doesnt take my word for that.

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Beta
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Joined: May 20, 2010
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:29 pm Reply with quote

Reading the messages with some interest. I heard from others that i am not a bad pilot ( im not saying that from myself), and i have a lot of experiences with so called "aces". Some i do have a lot of respect, others i have some "feelings" about them.
Seems yu have some experience too. Can/will you give me a list of "cheaters" you encountered so far??? You can send me that in private message.
I will give you than my list in pm.

Thanks in advance. Wink
 
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Jumoschwanz
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Joined: May 31, 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:30 pm Reply with quote

This is why I don't fly mods and try to discourage them. If everyone flew the same version of IL2, the latest official patch, this would not be a problem and here is why:

If you fly one patch of IL2 for weeks or months and you test the various aircraft yourself you can see easily when something suspicious is going on, BUT:

With all the various mods and hacks out there that modify aircraft flight models and weaponry, when you see something out of the ordinary you just have to shrug it off and say to yourself "well I guess they must have changed that in the latest mod or HACK".

If a server allows Oleg's patch and also mods, then you will have the same aircraft on the same server flying and shooting differently so what can you say? Not to mention that crt2 can not keep out HACKs anyway, if a HACK user is not too greedy and is conservative with his use of them, then he will be very hard to point a finger at.

The MOD movement was started by a few twits that decided they did not like Oleg's P-51, etc.. They did not have the maturity or patience to learn how to fly what was there, or to wait for future patches so they selfishly divided the community into little pieces, made it harder for newcomers to install the sim and run it online etc. all to satisfy their personal wet-dreams.

Those who really care for IL2 Sturmovik and it's community will support Oleg's official versions of it and the servers that run it. And if they feel like developing software they will help Oleg and friends work on putting new patches out.

It is easy to see that supporting the official patch of the sim and Oleg will create the best community, the best attraction for new online pilots, and the largest population on Hyperlobby. All work outside official channels disintegrates these things.

It is a double-standard to say there is a difference between cheats and "mods". Someone wants a feature in IL2 Sturmovik that is not in an official patch, so they makea change to a flight model or a weapon to suit their personal tastes. If an entire squad does it and makes it available to the public they call it a "mod", when someone has a "mod" that is not generally available it is called a hack or cheat.

The individual that uses "cheats" for selfish reasons or "fun" disrupts the play on individual servers, the squads and servers that promote unofficial "mods" for selfish reasons or "fun" disrupt and divide the entire community.


Last edited by Jumoschwanz on Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:19 am; edited 1 time in total 
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_RAAF_Furball
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Joined: Sep 06, 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:41 am Reply with quote

+1 for Jumoschwanz's comments.
Very well said.

RAAF servers are:
- MODs - never
- CRT=2 always
 
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AcesHigh
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Joined: May 19, 2010
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:53 am Reply with quote

If 4.10 ever comes out we will have atleast a week of everyone flying the same thing...till they crack it and add the "mods" Rolling Eyes
 
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